Dual carb set ups - ?

[Os7213]

Hi guys.
When you using carbs you dont need the ECU since the fuel\air delivery is completly assume by the carbs. Your engine can work with only carbs and trigger wheel, the wheel serve for ignition timing.
Since you choose to go high rpm you will need something better like an MSD digital6 to ensure ignition at 7500rpm+. I suppose your setup work with Edis4 setup or something like this? Do you know if the ignition besome really unstable at 7500rpm+??
For the carbs the only think you can change is jettings, the jets are in the carbs and allow the fuel to be sprayed in the ports! So if you get bigger jets you allow more fuel in the engine. You can also redrill the one already installed, its a hard job to redrill but its can save you few dollars if you dont really know wich size to use for your application.
Note than the carbs need to be ajusted each time the atmospheric pression change...like in mountain,rain ect... And that where is a pain!
Carbs have also good throttle response. So for your problem with the engine light...you dont need ECU anymore,no sensors at all, ithink you can even unplug all the ECU and sensors and the car will still work perfectly! The only way you can control carbs is by jets and hand ajustements.

Hope i have help
Ugo

[NoHachi]

He is using the stock ecu in limp home mode to controll ignition. No EDIS no nothing..Carbs need adjustment for best power...but they'll work regardless, just less well, i never touch the buggers.
Adjusting carbs is a difficult task that has numerous books written on the subject..i suspect though that fueling is not the problem

[Os7213]

Ok but i think he need to run something really better for ignition control...No sure if everyone will agree but i really suggest a MSD digital6 to ensure high rpm efficacity.
For the ajustments on the carbs here a little forum where praticly all setup(Not really 4age but..!) run on carbs so you can post all you jetting infos and theses guys will help you for sure
http://guy-croft.com/index.php?sid=a5405...0c73b32dd0

See ya guys
Ugo

[NoHachi]

Thats what I think too...running that poor on timing is costing him at least 20% hp.

[Os7213]

YES! first time i heard someone using stock ECU to provide ignition so there a lot of lost HP in there! I agree with you Nohachi at least 20%!!!
The Edis4 setup cam be the best for nearly stock use and go MSD digital6 to go higher rpm since the EDIS4 come from a stock Ford Escort So its not an engine who rev alot! Oh BTW if anyone interrested i have a complete EDIS4 setup with trigger wheel and 2 spare module for sale...
Anyway the stock ECU cause a lot of lost HP so check another type of setup

[Denmark]

I dont understand why you all flame this guy,

I would say that this setup with carb,will easy out perform the oe intake,
and that´s EASY.
I can see toda camwheel, and that is offcourse not installed with OE cams.

The carb will make same same power as itb will

It could be 180 hp or maybe above.



/Skassa

[eight-six]

Quote:MAP/TPS/RPM...those are the 3 main indicators of engine load...you probably only have an rpm signal left aka locked out tuning.[quote]

Does locked out timing mean less power, thought you only sacrificed power lower down but wont be an issue for peak performance?? If the timing is locked out then fine I may loose some low down power but seeing as the car lives its life on track and well past 4k it lost power I will never have to worry about.

[quote]Realistically..whatever gazillion horsepower cars you are beating, you are probably doing it with no more then 110 hp at the crank. Welcome to the world of individual throttles and instant respons

Maybe it just my driving abilities then? However I severely doubt the car is only making 110bhp. I would place a butt dyno figure of around 160bhp, my butt dyno is also well calibrated and usually close to the mark. I have driven and owned considerably faster cars and I know that this is not a 110bhp car. Not interested in throttle bodies I want to retain the Carb set up – just ditch what I can of the ECU wiring loom, and if possible improve the set up and get an understanding of how it works.

Cheers

James

[NoHachi]

Huh flaming? Its just a fact...most power can be gained by tweeking the timing. If you want to know how big a difference the timing controlls can make, do a search of the more oldscool toyota forums (kp61, 3tc) tons of people that have done this before and every one of them was amazed with the difference..prolly some threads on club4AG too.

Eightsix: the timing map sometimes becomes constant or smooth at high rpm, with a fixed max.advance..however big cammed engines can have very irregular VE maps with large fluctuations between 4000 and 8000rpm..you need to adjust your timing too them...maybe just ask Ben what he does for timing and what difference he expects..he probably knows from experience.

And your carbs are individual throttles. 1 throttle/cylinder

160hp on poorly adjusted timing sounds like 300deg cams and 1200rpm idle. Would be very very difficult to make that kind of power with the stock rev.limit. Get it on a rolling road some time and before that post some vids...carbies sound great.

[Os7213]

Yes im sorry bit i dont understand how u can do 160hp with ECU in limp home mode...

[eight-six]

Dont think any flaming is going - just happy to get some views on this so all constructive opinions appreciated.

Quote:Eightsix: the timing map sometimes becomes constant or smooth at high rpm, with a fixed max.advance..however big cammed engines can have very irregular VE maps with large fluctuations between 4000 and 8000rpm..you need to adjust your timing too them...maybe just ask Ben what he does for timing and what difference he expects..he probably knows from experience.

I have dropped Ben an email, but havent heard back yet. If I can increase the power by having the timing set properly then fantastic just means I am quicker on track. The car performs well on its current set up, but I know its not perfect. Just want to make an informed descision on which way to go.

Quote:160hp on poorly adjusted timing sounds like 300deg cams and 1200rpm idle. Would be very very difficult to make that kind of power with the stock rev.limit. Get it on a rolling road some time and before that post some vids...carbies sound great.

Its got 288 cams, head skim, idle is lumpy and high. Goes nicley and sounds amazing - taking it to about 8k but pulls beyond and power is stillclimbing. I should have some video footage shortly.