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Help me make a choice.
09-10-2004, 11:47 AM
Post: #1
Help me make a choice.
Ok, first of moderators, this isn't really a AE86 related question. But nobody has to know ok? Japanse, RWD, must be close enough no?

Ok the question..Next month I am in the luxury position of having some extra cash to spend on my car. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, I adhere to the "Do it once and do it properly" mentality and have a clear plan of what i wan't my car to be. But now I find myself having to make choices that are a lot less easy when you actually have the cash to spend.
What are we talking about here? Well, I'm looking for a new suspension setup for my car. I'm looking to make it more communicative and perhaps gain some speed at the autocross and at the track. It wil remain my daily driver so springrates are a concern. Introducing the options:

1. My current favourite: the TEIN FLEX coilovers. Available from two sources. Ebay(E) and Adrenaline Racing(AR) (have a good relation with that shop).
Specs: Dual tube shock construction. Powdercoated metal.
Springrates: 7kg/mmF and 6kg/mmR
Features: Threaded shock bottom. this makes it possible to adjust the length of the shockbodies themselves not only the position of the springperches. You always have max. suspensiontravel at each hight (think short strokes with variable strut/shock length). The kit comes with pillowball upper mounts,that give about 2cm of extra suspensiontravel (and thus lowering capability) and they stiffen up the construction somewhat. 16 position adjustable damping
Rants: The flex seem really nice. they allow considerable lowering without the car constantly bouncing of the bumpstops. Max lowering does ruin the camber curves, but you need less of it because of the high spring rates. Their high speed valving is set to a rather comfortable setting so its a pretty nice dual purpose setup. Negatives are the spring rate bias: to get the balance back to stock you need either a swaybar or a +1kg/mm spring at the Front. Tha balance without these mods is towards oversteer (NOT fun, I want throttle on oversteer and slight understeer while braking. Understeer is the BEST way of getting the power down on a RWD car-if anyones interested I'll elaborate).
Price: Heres the problem. On ebay they go for around 1200 dollars. Shipping options are limited and probably they won't put a lower price on the box (taxes). They are not a licensed seller so no guarantee. Price to my front door = 1260 E
AR sells them at 1490 dollars, there is room to negotiate though. guessing he would drop to around the 1350-1390 mark. That does come with a guarantee and service from the shop is top notch. Eddies probably willing to be creative with the shipping charges and price on the box. Price to my front door between 1300 and 1400 E.

Tein HA coilovers
Same construction as the flex. No pillowball mounts, no threaded shock bottoms and length adjustment.
Spring rate: 5kg/mm (F), 4 kg/mm ®
Features: 16 position adjustable damping
Rants: Nice basic setup. Does not have the versatility of the Flex, springrates are a little more street friendly but with more agressive damping so comfort is about the same. They do noy allow to much of a drop 2cm or so max. Keeps the camber curves desent though. Spring rate bias still to much towards oversteer. Custom springrates are 100 bucks extra.
Price: 850 buck while supply lasts. Around 940E to my fornt door, possibly less with cheaper shipping. (around 850E)

HKS hypermax II coilovers:
construction: Alloy monotube. Superior fade resistance and internal resistance compared to the Teins ( not that the teins are bad though). lighter as well, around 1kg/ corner half of that is unsprung weight.
Spring rates: unknown
Feature: 32 position adjustable damping, shortened shock bodies, pillow ball moeunts.
Rants: Allmost nothing is known about these dampers. They seem nice on the photo's but who knows?
price: 1800 dollars, i can get my hands on a new set for 1000 dollars though. Around 1100E to my front door.

Koni yellows with tein S tech springs.
construction: dual tube metal dampers
Spring rates: 4.2kg/mm front 3 kg/mm rear
Features: only rebound adjustable, 3 spring perch positions.
Rants: could be a nice setup. A lot cheaper then the rest, but less versitile. Seem to be less performance orientated then the rest. Would i notice that? Not a clue...They do have somewhat of a decent springbias (F/R)
Price: 595 dollars. Around 700E to my front door.

What to do what to do? All of the options are interesting, all of them have their drawbacks. With money saved on the cheaper options I could finance a couple of Sparco Sprint seats, or a brake job with decent pads and fluids, a somewhat smaller steering wheel (more leg room), decent alignment and cornerweighting etc etc.

A wheel to steer the front of the car
A pedal to steer the rear
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09-10-2004, 11:52 AM
Post: #2
Help me make a choice.
Coilovers are nice but in my eyes useless.

Koni is great with the right springs you can do anything with them the yellow koni is changeble to anything you want.

Your suspension has to be road and circuit good.

go for 6kg/mm in the front 5 or 4.5 kg/mm in the rear lower springs of 30 or 40 mm and have fun

if possible save as much money as possible you might want to change the bushings on the mount spots.

i would go for koni seeing price etc and off course its dutch

Cars:
"99 Lexus IS200
"86 AE86 Kouki Panda Levin GT-Apex (restore project)
"84 AE86 Zenki Blue Levin (project racer)
Motorcycles:
"02 Yamaha R1
"02 Honda Hornet S
"08 BMW R1200GS
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09-10-2004, 12:04 PM
Post: #3
Help me make a choice.
Robokill, coilovers are nice for cornerweighting the car.
I should clarify my self somewhat. We are not talking about a hachi. Think unequal length double wishbones. Ideal springrates would be 9/6 or 7/4.5 or 6/4. All based on a Front roll couple of 60%.
Bushings are OK, car has only 47.000km's on the odometer.

A wheel to steer the front of the car
A pedal to steer the rear
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09-10-2004, 12:06 PM
Post: #4
Help me make a choice.
Damn, you guys no alot more about this stuff then I do, I'm gonne read and learn hereSmile

Greetz,

Bastiaan "mux213" Olij

Moved down under, no more hachi Sad
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09-10-2004, 01:53 PM
Post: #5
Help me make a choice.
hmmz oke but then we prolly talk about a heavier car than the hachi they are almost perfectly in balance.

Ok but coil overs are for changes the height for balancing the car if you stiffen a koni more on one side than the other it would balance the bounch in and out rate giving the same effect caus we don't talk in big difrences.

or am i wrong????

Cars:
"99 Lexus IS200
"86 AE86 Kouki Panda Levin GT-Apex (restore project)
"84 AE86 Zenki Blue Levin (project racer)
Motorcycles:
"02 Yamaha R1
"02 Honda Hornet S
"08 BMW R1200GS
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09-10-2004, 02:07 PM
Post: #6
Help me make a choice.
Nope not heavier at all. 950kg's to be exact. Perfect 50-50 weight distribution.
Cornerweighting is a topic all at itself. Give google a whirl and you'll soon find enough interesting topics to read. Cornerweighting can be of influence on a hachi and all the top autoX drivers should be using it. Take a peak at club4ag. I'm sure a search will turn up with something.

A wheel to steer the front of the car
A pedal to steer the rear
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