Cams doubt

[T_AE86]

Hi, anybody knows how many hp we can gain only with cams?

I know it depends on the type of cam...and the rest of the engine, but my question is about to get power only with cams (original 4age 16v, original ECU, ....only cams change)

Thanks!

[Project D]

I don't like to make advertising but if you want to change only the cams I think the colt tri flow is the best option:
http://www.nonstoptuning.com/pageTriFlowDynos.html
(gain around 10whp)

[T_AE86]

Project D Wrote:I don't like to make advertising but if you want to change only the cams I think the colt tri flow is the best option:
http://www.nonstoptuning.com/pageTriFlowDynos.html
(gain around 10whp)

Sorry mate!! i absolutely forgot this post, thank you very much, i didn't know it (i was looking CatCams 7105137, but i don't know how much HP will gain with those)

I'm going to disassemble one of engines to rebuild it, anyone has those NST cams? recommend it?

[oldeskewltoy]

WARNING.... OPINION

I'm not a big fan of the Tri-Flow cams... they were not designed with a great deal of forethought........

The Triflow design opens one intake valve slightly earlier then the other. The idea is sound... to promote something called "tumble", or "swirl" Each helps cylinder filling. The problem is they didn't design the cams in conjunction with the way TVIS activates.....

As I understand it, the way the Tri-Flow cams were designed/built is beginning @ the front (#1) they chose the same lobe from each pairing to activate earlier.


IDEALLY... the tri flow cams should open the "favored" valve first allowing the fuel sitting on the back of the favored valve (batch injection) to enter the chamber first.



Look at the photo above... see how the injector hole favors one valve over the other?? Also note how the TVIS butterflies are also on the same path as the injector placement

IMHO...... the Tri-Flows should be built to match the butterflies/injector placement... This would mean instead of grinding the same lobe on each pair to open first, that they grind them in conjunction with the TVIS/injector placement.

OPINION over thank you for your understanding....

To the OP... unless your engine is really healthy... you will need more than camshafts to actually gain power.

My prescription for you.........
Purchase camshafts(256 type only), purchase adjustable timing pulleys, purchase .8mm TRD gasket, machine head surface .020"(.5mm) This combination should not only look good on a dyno, but should feel good on the street.

My preferred "256" type camshaft is Web Camshaft's Grind 294, Or Kamikaze's Grind 294


Finally... some nomenclature help. You will hear camshafts described in duration(length of time cam keeps valve open), and lift (amount cam opens the valves). Some cams use the duration as its name, ("HKS256, or HKS264, some others too) these cams have TOTAL durations of 256 or 264 degrees. Some cam shaft makers use names(or numbers) they developed to differentiate(Web cams 294 grind)

What YOU as a consumer want to do is dig up as much information as you can so that YOU pick the best cam for your needs.

I have collected many of the more common 4AG timing cards... although I'm missing the timing card for the Triflow cams

stock - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...ckboth.jpg
old HKS 264/8.35 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...264835.jpg
old HKS 256/8.35 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...256835.jpg
Wade(Aussie) - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...Aussie.jpg
new HKS exhaust - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...xhaust.jpg
new hks intake - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...Intake.jpg
Web 101 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...mspecs.jpg
Web 577 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...aminfo.jpg
Web 294 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...mspecs.jpg
TRD timing (AE86 Bible) - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...aminfo.jpg
TRD timing (AE92 Bible) - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...312304.jpg
Toda 264/7.9 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...a26479.jpg
Toda 256/7.9 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...a25679.jpg
Kamikaze KK294 - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...amcard.jpg

[T_AE86]

Thanks!! That's a lot of information (i'm ignorant on this topic)

I was thinking to shave the head and take a "good" size of gasket, but i had no idea about how much (i was thinking polish it and remove t-vis too)

Those 256 type cams need to work the head?? or are "plug and play" in the stock head?

[oldeskewltoy]

T_AE86 Wrote:Thanks!! That's a lot of information (i'm ignorant on this topic)

I was thinking to shave the head and take a "good" size of gasket, but i had no idea about how much (i was thinking polish it and remove t-vis too)

Those 256 type cams need to work the head?? or are "plug and play" in the stock head?

don't remove TVIS... it helps for street driving, and as long as you are using the stock ECU, the butterflies cause fewer problems in... then removed.

The Web 294 cam I recommended will work as a plug and play....

Speaking about "plug and play", camshaft makers will tell you their camshaft is "plug and play", but in reality no camshaft should be installed that way. Every camshaft should be installed and timed CAREFULLY to TRUE TOP DEAD CENTER... this is the only way to get peak performance.

[Project D]

More importantly than just timing (you may lose a little bit of power, but you don't risk an engine failure), always check the valve clearance !

I have seen to many people "dropping" cams in their engine without checking the valve clearance...

For the Tri-Flow cams I never had one in my hands so I can't tell about the pairing.
But if they actually have done what you say (same lobe on each pairing) that's really dumb

[Alex170984]

I'm in the process of stripping / rebuilding my 4AGE

I will be purchasing the 252/260 cat cams - the TED components website which off almost the same cam state around 15-20 bhp

I will however be thoroughly checking my valve clearance and installing new valve springs to ensure the new camshafts do not destroy my engine. I'll also be buying new vernier cams too.

[oldeskewltoy]

Alex170984 Wrote:I'm in the process of stripping / rebuilding my 4AGE

I will be purchasing the 252/260 cat cams - the TED components website which off almost the same cam state around 15-20 bhp

I will however be thoroughly checking my valve clearance and installing new valve springs to ensure the new camshafts do not destroy my engine. I'll also be buying new vernier cams too.

Total Duration - 260° / 252° Duration @ 1mm lift - 230° / 222° Cam lift 9.00 / 8.50mm - Valve lift is less by the amount of the valve clearance recommended by the manufacturer.

Before you drop any cash... look into (research) a concept called "dynamic compression ratio" The above cams MAY be too big(duration) and actually lower your engines overall performance.

Cam with lifts exceeding 8.20 cam lift (8.00 mm valve lift) should get adequate springs, stockers are reaching their limit. I recommend the Toda springs because of their cost, and their capability (capable of lifts upto 10.25mm)

BE AWARE - cams approaching, and going over 9mm of lift have been known to toss (Tiddly Wink) the adjustment shims. Shim under, or shimless buckets MAY be a worthwhile investment

Cat Cams timing procedure is adequate, although using a piston stop to determine TDC is far easier, and just as accurate(if not more so) then their method with the dial indicator.

Project D Wrote:More importantly than just timing (you may lose a little bit of power, but you don't risk an engine failure), always check the valve clearance !

I have seen to many people "dropping" cams in their engine without checking the valve clearance...

VERY true... you also can lose more power by loose clearances.. why I always fit the shims to the minimum spec

[T_AE86]

Thank you very much!!

oldeskewltoy Wrote:My prescription for you.........
Purchase camshafts(256 type only), purchase adjustable timing pulleys, purchase .8mm TRD gasket, machine head surface .020"(.5mm) This combination should not only look good on a dyno, but should feel good on the street.

My preferred "256" type camshaft is Web Camshaft's Grind 294, Or Kamikaze's Grind 294

With this "prescription" and WebCam 294...how many hp will gain +-?...is to make an idea