max brake disc thickness ae86 caliper+heel and toe question

[ditn]

i have a couple of questions
What is the max brake disc thickness allowed by ae86 caliper?
the reason i ask this is because i want to use s13 discs who are 257mm and 22mm thick.

second question i have is:
im trying to learn heel and toe for the circuit but thre is something i dont understand.How do you do this if you are going down multiple gears like for example from fifth to second?

[NoHachi]

Some people row down the gears (5-4-3-2) while braking and blip the throttle on every shift. Sounds very sporty and circuit like, but it makes it hard to modulate the brakes effectively. It also introduces unneeded added shocks to the car during braking unless done absolutely perfectly. Many beginners do this and brag about their skills.

I know two national champ level drivers, one doesn't heal-toe at all. He just manages the extra braking torque from the engine during declutching as a trailbraking effort. The other doesn't row down the gears, just brakes, selects 2nd and gives it a massive blip of the throttle before coming of the clutch pedal. You have to take care though to do this once the speed has come down enough.

In practice it doesn't happen often though. The most you'll see regularly is 2 gears down. Usually you can grab the first gear as you get on the brakes and then the second one before turn in. So not a big problem.

[mc68]

You cannot run a rotor wider than 18mm and 232mm dia on an AE86 caliper.

[Project D]

mc68 Wrote:You cannot run a rotor wider than 18mm and 232mm dia on an AE86 caliper.

Only half true.
Auto Garage loft (in japan) manage to use bigger rotors by grinding the inner side of the caliper. (and of course special brackets)

I added some pictures

[ditn]

@NoHachi
thanks for the effort and information,appriciated
so basicly heel and toe is not neccessary required for circuit use.

Its like you say,1 dont like that i cant control the brakes enough whill doing 10 other things for heel and toe.But i was concerned for the stress it puts on the drivetrain braking the normal way.

my situation is like this for zolder,spa has some 5 to 2 corners


so at the brake point im in 4th,going to third and then second before the s.
Should i go from 4 to 3rd when i begin braking and then 3 to 2 just before the corner then,

my friend brakes more aggressive than me and always locks the wheels at several corners.How can this be avoided?

@Project D
its a clever idea but im not sure im confident with grinding my calipers

[NoHachi]

ditn, absolutely never start doing things on track that require you to do lots of things at the same time. Always a very bad idea.

You should be doing this at Zolder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOhjShLleeQ

Brake, when engine has slowed down select the right gear directly, blip thottle and de-clutch just before turn in. Requires one heal-toe blip, but can be done without. Just practice heal toe on every shift on the street.

Locking brakes is a skill problem, only practice helps. You need to be very aggressive on the brakes, so the sentiment is ok

[Jan Pedersen]

I think heel and toe is very much needed to have full stability while braking up to a corner. Depending on your brake setup it might be ok to release the clutch gently when going down through the gears but only if the rear brakes aren’t breaking enough. If brake balance is optimal the rear will be very close to looking up and if you release the clutch at this point you might just as well pull the handbrake.

Also I wouldn’t recommend changing down more than one gear at a time. You risk over revving you engine as you have no feeling of how many revs you will get in 2nd coming straight from 5th.

I started doing heel and toe on the streets every time I could. After a while this is perfectly natural to you

[totta Crolla]

The very first thing to do if you want to heel and toe is get the
pedals set up properly to allow it.
It's like left foot braking in as much as you need to be able to do it without thinking about it.
Having the pedals set up right means one less thing to think about while you are learning.

[NoHachi]

Jan Pedersen Wrote:I think heel and toe is very much needed to have full stability while braking up to a corner. Depending on your brake setup it might be ok to release the clutch gently when going down through the gears but only if the rear brakes aren’t breaking enough. If brake balance is optimal the rear will be very close to looking up and if you release the clutch at this point you might just as well pull the handbrake.

Thats what I thought as well. But tell that to this guy:

I know that its hard to tell, but running a 1m50 in traffic is fast. The fastest AE86 I've seen around here runs a clean 2:08 qualifying lap as a reference. This is one of the frontrunners in the dutch supercar challenge (GT4) and formula ford

No heel and toe
No rowing through gears
Not a second lost anywhere

It can be done.
I know that this particular guy does start heal-toe-ing when it rains, though no rowing through gears. Just focus on the things that matter... heal/toe should be WAY down on the list.

[Project D]

NoHachi, you really think that an AE86 can be driven like an E90 M3 ?!


First, the performance/behavior of a modern car have nothing in common with an late 80 sports car.
Secondly, the gearbox(T50) is not well known to be really strong...