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Apolan
Bunta
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 1851
Location: Slovenia, Ljubljana
1984 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)
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 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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But there is a difference between wanting to improove your lap times and wanting to improove your driving.
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There are no good decisions or bad decisions - only deciding or running away.
-me, 2007
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Michel H
Wataru
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 83
1989 Toyota Other corolla
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Yes but there is also a difference between mounting a good suspension under your car and understanding a good suspension (which I don't lol) so you can make it work better, or at least adapt your driving.
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gt99
Wataru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Latvia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Apolan wrote: | | But there is a difference between wanting to improove your lap times |
Tires = 40%
Driver = 30%
suspension = 20%
everything else = 10%
| Apolan wrote: | | and wanting to improove your driving. |
Car's good (or perfect) technical condition 50%
Tires = 20%
suspension = 20%
everything else = 10%
Driver - nonsignificant
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EE80Liftback
Takumi
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 460
Location: Espoo, Finland
1990 Peugeot 309
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| gt99 wrote: | | Driver - nonsignificant |
lol
I guess that makes me a racing car driver too  You're not serious, right?
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Apolan
Bunta
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 1851
Location: Slovenia, Ljubljana
1984 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well the precentage can vary from person to person but the idea is clear. If you want to improove your driving skill than you need a reliable and properly set up car that you can practice wiith - but doesnt necesarilly have to be rediculously fast. So you can even start on poor tires and softer suspension and than progress to stiffer suspension and stickier tyres.. But if you want to improove your lap times than you can compensate for the lack of your skill by putting better tires etc.. in my opinion, only important if you are racing in a cup or something like that..
One more thing i dont agree totally with is "Driver - non important". We all know a saying "practice makes perfect"... but i think only "perfect practice makes perfect". So it is important what you are doing behind the wheel - that you learn race properly.. it is like that in everything. Any tennis player will tell you how difficult it is to unlearn those bad shots/movements once you "mastered" them.
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There are no good decisions or bad decisions - only deciding or running away.
-me, 2007
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gt99
Wataru
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Latvia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Apolan wrote: | | One more thing i dont agree totally with is "Driver - non important". We all know a saying "practice makes perfect"... but i think only "perfect practice makes perfect". So it is important what you are doing behind the wheel - that you learn race properly.. it is like that in everything. Any tennis player will tell you how difficult it is to unlearn those bad shots/movements once you "mastered" them. |
As I understand it earlier with "driver" everybody was thinking about "driving skill" (maybe I misunderstood). I think your current driving skill is not important in case You want to improove your driving. "learn drive properly" is something different and newbies may have this quality. And I agree, "learn drive properly" is important.
I was trying to keep things simple. For example, why nobody mentioned "good teacher"? Or he is not important to improove Your driving?
p.s. to become a proper racing driver In Latvia You need: racing car, safety gear (helmet etc.) and licence (You need to know rules and regulations). Driving skill isn't a requirement  
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Sgonzalez
Wataru
Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 60
Location: Costa Rica
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| gt99 wrote: | | Apolan wrote: | | One more thing i dont agree totally with is "Driver - non important". We all know a saying "practice makes perfect"... but i think only "perfect practice makes perfect". So it is important what you are doing behind the wheel - that you learn race properly.. it is like that in everything. Any tennis player will tell you how difficult it is to unlearn those bad shots/movements once you "mastered" them. |
As I understand it earlier with "driver" everybody was thinking about "driving skill" (maybe I misunderstood). I think your current driving skill is not important in case You want to improove your driving. "learn drive properly" is something different and newbies may have this quality. And I agree, "learn drive properly" is important.
I was trying to keep things simple. For example, why nobody mentioned "good teacher"? Or he is not important to improove Your driving?
p.s. to become a proper racing driver In Latvia You need: racing car, safety gear (helmet etc.) and licence (You need to know rules and regulations). Driving skill isn't a requirement |
YEAH, I just posted the idea for me to undestand the best setup for grip for fun and security reasons!!!! I just have experience WITH FRONT WHEEL CARS, AND HELLL IT IS DIFFERENT.
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NoHachi
Moderator
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1998
Location: Delft - The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Not different at all  Its the exact same principles, think about it:
You want to keep all 4 tires planted as best as possible
You want the steering wheels to grip at turn in and the powered wheels to grab at corner exit.
Do that successfully and you have a working grip setup. Good drift setups are exactly the same, the only points where they differ is in the tweaking..not in the various parts they use.
Anyway, lets approach this differently:
What is it that you want? Understand the principles behind grip setups and grip driving or a shopping list?
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A wheel to steer the front of the car
A pedal to steer the rear
Scuderia Rollator
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Apolan
Bunta
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 1851
Location: Slovenia, Ljubljana
1984 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: |
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and while at it, maybe somebody can move this post to a more appropriate section (track related).
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There are no good decisions or bad decisions - only deciding or running away.
-me, 2007
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banpei
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 7627
Location: Hilversum
1982 Toyota Carina
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Apolan wrote: | | and while at it, maybe somebody can move this post to a more appropriate section (track related). |
LOL 
Moved the topic to track-related.
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Sailor Hachi says: "hachini kawatte oshiokiyo" (In the name of the hachi: I'll punish you!)
1982 - TA60 Carina 4dr sedan - family cruiser
2004 - AEU86 dot ORG - daily domain
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totta Crolla
Takumi
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Oxford U.K
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| Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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To resurrect this old thread, I can say after some experimentation that a good set up for grip is one where the back of the car is lower than the front,mine is now 1" lower at the back and is quite soft. Front springs 300lb rear springs 220lb Standard front and rear anti roll bars. 1.5 degrees neg camber front, 3 degrees castor, zero toe.
I think many people ar guilty of 'over adjusting' because they can. e.g 4 degrees camber and 450lb front springs just makes the car understeer.
Anyway this may be of use to someone..... wish it was here a year ago !!
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