coolant dissaperance, engine problem
07-15-2010, 02:47 AM
Post: #1
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
I have a problem with coolant liquid leaking, possibly something more.

It's bigport 3rib 4AGE 16v rebuilded some 3000km ago.
It has Wiseco forged pistons and custom intake (ITB, custom manifold ..),
radiator from some some Honda (big enough), Opel electric fan and thermal fan switch.

Beside this, engine is stock.
When rebuilt, new water pump was installed, all gaskets etc. standard stuff.

Like month ago ago, engine temperature started to raise, coolant overheated and started to evapourate.
It happend quickly, during very slow city drive, outside was like 25 C and rain was pouring like crazy. That's the reason i haven't noticed temperature, really had to focus whats happening in front Sad,
I stopped, poped the hood and saw water smoking runing out of expansion tank. Only at that moment fan started.
Radiator cap haven't moved, and when smoking stopped, there was still some water (1/4 of tank) in expansion tank. I waited for some time, connected FAN on "allways ON" and went home. Temperature was OK, at the middle of the scale on that 2km ride to home.

Tomorrow i flushed all coolant, all oil and put new one. Also new thermostat, double checked thermal fan switch, relay, cables... everything looked fine.

I drove for some 200-300km, mixed driving, no problems, run great, until...

Few days ago, temperature started to rise again while driving faster. I was quicker this time, shut down the engine before overheating. Scale went on 3/4 of gauge, not overheated, at least according to it. I couldn't figre out if FAN started or not. Few minutes after, i was driving slow, temperature was at middle od scale and i went home, few kilometers more.
Tomorro i haven't checked anything and went for slow short drive.
Again, temeprature started to raise, but this time, slowing down to 2k rpm drive in 3rd gear with minimum throttle couldn't lower it. I stopped,checked coolant level in expansion tantk and saw a unpleasent suprise, there wasn't any coolant.
Luckily, had some water at hand and poured in some 2 liters to fill up radiator completly and expansion tank to full setting.
From that moment, drive was ok.
Day after, that's yesterday, i left it idle some 20 minutes. AFter that, there wasn't anything liquid on ground, couldn't see any water was missing from expansion tank, radiator was full.
I checked oil, it was still at max, looked ok. Haven't smelled it that time.

Today, first drive was some 5km, everything OK. Couldn't see anything is missing, coolant level same, car running great.
This time, when i stoped, i checked oil level and smelled it. I could feel gas or exhaust fumes, something like that, not sure, but it certainly wasn't just oil. Oil level ok.

Second drive was some 20km, easy driving at night, and after some 20minutes i stopped and checked all liquids second after i shut off engine.
Coolant was ok, but oil smelled more on gas, much more than 2 hours ago..After 10 minutes i checked oil level, it was ok, oil looked ok and the smell became weaker.

That's current situation, from tonight.
All this time, car is going ok. I have some problems in 1000-1800rpm area which are constant, but they started after last mapping attempt. These glitches happens every time at that range with easy throttle. If i push it harder, engine passes these rpms without issues.

In all other situation, engine works great and performance are at expected level. Exhaust doesn't smell funny, it looks ok.
I don't see any leaks on engine, but i examined it just briefly, i have to wait for tomorrow or even Friday to look at it thoroughly.

That's about it.
Don't know what to do, can't find were it looses coolant.
Most confusing is the part where it looks like it looses coolant from time to time only, not constantly. Engine runs and sounds great, so it doesn't looks like it it leaks in cylinder or oil.
Oil looks ok, but it smells like exhaust/gas. But, i can't be sure if that is really a problem since my pistons are forged and backslashes (hope i got it alright, space between two parts, inside tolerances) are a bit bigger with them.

I would really appreciate help. Thanks
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07-15-2010, 08:40 AM
Post: #2
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Dunno what the problem could be..but two observations:

I had the same coolant loss problem once in my civic..could never find a leak or anything. Turned out it was a leak at one hose connection that would only leak when fully heated and under pressure. By the time I slowed down and looked under the hood it would have ended. Check all rubber hoses and be especially attentive towards any white residue..might indicate steam/fluid loss.

My civic had the same symptoms as yours regarding temperature..hard to cool the car if you are losing pressure and fluid.

A wheel to steer the front of the car
A pedal to steer the rear
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07-15-2010, 11:20 AM
Post: #3
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Blown Head Gasket?

AE86 GT - SR20DET BlackTop //// Trackday beater
Citroen C4 Coupe VTR - 1.6HDi //// Streetcar
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07-15-2010, 11:31 AM
Post: #4
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Could be, of course.

I'm thinking is this related, leaking coolant and gas in oil....

maybe:
- I'm just running rich and/or backslash in cylinders are too big until engine heats up (let's hope they are big only in those few minutes, not always ) which causes gas smell in oil. Leakage is separate problem.

maybe:
- i have problem with leaking somewhere on radiator/clamps/hoses which caused overheat, which caused blown head gasket and now gas is somehow going to oil ??


What is the worst case scenario?
Bad rings leaking gas down to oil + bad head gasket + leakage in cylinder ... ?

Thanks
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07-15-2010, 11:55 AM
Post: #5
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Don't chase several problems at a time. If you burn enough coolant in your cylinder to make a big difference, things become a spectacle.. White clouds all the way towards the horizon Evil
Any white smoke from exhaust? Mayonnaise inside the oil filler cap?

So while the headgasket might have become a problem (overheating is never good for an engine), you have more obvious targets at the moment. Get the cooling working first, then start on the other problems. This is a nice list to start looking at:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant_leaks.htm

A wheel to steer the front of the car
A pedal to steer the rear
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07-15-2010, 12:25 PM
Post: #6
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Exhaust smells nice, no colors, nor white nor black.
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07-15-2010, 07:02 PM
Post: #7
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
A compression test might reveal something.
You can also check for water in the combustion chamber. With the engine completely cold and the ignition and fuel pump relays removed turn the engine over on the starter. Any water will appear on the plugs.
Air lock in the system ? Was the heater on hot when you put the coolant in the first time ?

An analogue brain in a digital World
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07-16-2010, 09:45 AM
Post: #8
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Will test compression today, do a detailed check for leakage.
Let you know Smile
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07-16-2010, 03:37 PM
Post: #9
coolant dissaperance, engine problem
Great news, found leak on lower radiator clamp, tightened, will see if
it will leak somewhere again.
Looks that it leaked only when under higher load and temperature, so it was harder to find.

Since car is going ok, i hope headgasket is ok. Will check compression just to be sure.

Problem with smelly oil remains, will check on wideband what afr i have, and lower injectors duty cycle.
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