Beams (SXE10) inlet pattern the same as 16V or 20V 4AGE?

[Conrad]

Can anybody confirm if the beams blacktop dual VVti inlet is the same as either the 16v or 20v 4age?

The reason for the question is that I need to get a manifold made for my ITB's and would like to get a head start before the engine arrives.

I had heard that ITBs off a 20V actually bolt up?

Cheers

[Miguel - Newera]

Conrad, we've a customer's RS200 Z-Edition here about to leave for the UK, so I had a quick look to compare it's engine whilst looking at pictures from TRD.

You'll definitely need a manifold, that goes without saying - and you'll want one which will give the most straight possible path of flow...

Going by pictures, the AE111 ITB kit from TRD looks the same. I'd guess you're not going to get best benefits from a std. AE111 bore, though especially if running high rpm or increased capacity later. There are companies here offering upgrade large bore machining & conversion for AE111 ITB's.

Drop me a line if you want us to find you a race proven manifold here and we can do some research to find the best currently available for the job for you

HTH

[assassin10000]

Manifolds are different, linkage is slightly different. The TRD - ITB's bore is standard 45mm blacktop.

Contact 'Celica RA45' on toymods.net - he can give you the lowdown and already produces itb manifold/kits for the beams motors.

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread...elica+ra45

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40381

Andrew

[Conrad]

Thanks Andrew, Miguel, for the information. I have Jenvey 54mm bodies already, just looking to get a suitable manifold as Jenvey dont do one, failing that I will have to fab one.

[assassin10000]

Conrad Wrote:Thanks Andrew, Miguel, for the information. I have Jenvey 54mm bodies already, just looking to get a suitable manifold as Jenvey dont do one, failing that I will have to fab one.

54mm... Seems a bit overkill to me.

And as per jenvey's site, it is. 54mm would be recommended for a car up to 372 hp...
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/Tech_QA.htm

I think Celica_RA45 who is producing around 186 kws (@ the rear wheels or just about 260rwhp) and is running 50mm ITB's iirc...

Andrew

[MartinS]

IMHO: 54mm is ways tooo big, as most 4age race spec engines are build with AE101. The diameter will maybe help moving the "air mass" but it will kill any "flow-speed". Think 48 - 50 is a good enought.

[SekiguchiUeno]

heh you dont know Conrad, i dont know him either but i see he push the things to perfection. Its for 3sge beams engine and i can imagine he want at least to break the 100Kw/Liter ratio So 54mm bodies are accurate.

[assassin10000]

SekiguchiUeno Wrote:Its for 3sge beams engine

and i can imagine he want at least to break the 100Kw/Liter ratio So 54mm bodies are accurate.

I know it's for 3S-GE beams...

I know the TRD kit comes with blacktop ITB's, on a TRD manifold, with TRD velocity stacks/bellmouths, and different linkage. The TRD beams engine 'supposedly' made 260ps, which is just below 100kw liter. 268 being close 100kw IIRC.

TRD's claims might not be at the wheels tho, where-as Celica_RA45's are. If they are true, then depending on drivetrain losses he might have achieved over 100kw per liter...

I've done a bit of research on this, and 54 is going to lead to a loss of response & port velocity. Now, if he's running a longer intake, placing the ITB's further away from the cylinder head (due to tapering the intake for velocity) to take advantage of the 2nd harmonic - then he could get away with larger ITB's without hurting response too much. But that would lead to a 17-18" long manifold iirc, and very hard to package into an engine bay...

The guy I'm referring too (celica_ra45) I'd recommend that he (conrad) searches toymods.net's forums for all his threads as in them is some nuggets of good info.


In any case, if you read and researched on ITB sizing you'd realize 45-50mm is the correct sizing in most realistic situations for creating an intake system to handle 100kw per liter. 54 is overkill, and is for more like 140kw per liter. At least if we're talking about N/A motors, if boost is being introduced then things can change.

Andrew

[roman]

I'm running a copy of the TRD manifold with blacktop 4AGE throttle bodies on it, on beams 3S and some 110mm long trumpets.

People say 45mm throttles are about right for 2 litre motor, if not too big.

But the thing is, to get good velocity into the port you need the runner diameter/cross sectional area tapering down towards the head, and to get this to happen at all with beams motor you need at least 50mm dia throttles even though that goes against the general rule.

Mine have nice bellmouth, tapers down to 45mm throttles, but then tapers out slightly to the head/port.Not possible to have it any other way unless throttle diameter is larger, which is why I think Glenn makes the good power with the 48-50mm throttles.

Either way, gonna dyno both the quad throttle setup and single throttle setup, see which makes better power. Factory manifold is pretty decent!

[roman]

Oh and to answer the question.

To fit the 4AGE throttles to the 3S, you need the adaptor manifold, the 20V base manifold part definitely doesnt bolt up.

TRD manifold is awesome, tilts the angle of the runners up so it's a straight shot at the ports, open the throttles and you can see the back of the valves.