07-01-2009, 11:48 PM
Post: #11
conspiracy...no conspiracy

...It's all about the Benjamins anyway.

Cash is king Crying

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07-02-2009, 12:47 AM
Post: #12
i like the quote of Michiu Kaku (physicist) on weather we're alone in the universe or not. He said: "either we are alone or we are not, either thought is scary" Big Grin
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07-02-2009, 05:42 AM
Post: #13
Apolan Wrote:but unfortunately, just the same as zeitgeist this guy is highly motivated to draw (pre-set) conclusions.

My thoughts exactly.

This guy has too much free time on its hands, plus, the part he dedicates to example how rich the Zeitgeist guy can be its just ironic, being his own site full of google ads...

911, Religion, Central banking, NWO, Apollo 11, Kenedy, Area 51 and other such topics CAN in fact be revealed but would people be ready for the truth?

I guess I can live better just in my "day-to-day" living and keeping some ideas to myself not to sound like a crazy person, its some scary shit out there


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07-02-2009, 08:51 AM
Post: #14
I don't think the site I linked to is authorative, but I think its always good to hear other sides to a story.

Both sides are keen to prove a point. It is your responsability to check their logic, check their facts and make up your own mind. If you don't do that and just blindly follow propaganda thats fed to you....well wouldn't that make you the sheep that you are making other people out to be?

Apolan: you checked some references and didn't find it very convincing. Now THAT is a good start. Check some facts/references outside of the conspiracy community and you are on your way to becoming better informed.

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07-02-2009, 12:32 PM
Post: #15
I am checking. As I mentioned, I take into account everything from scientific researches to old mythologies and shamanic chants/stories, because i believe theese are all just different views on the same thing. In between is a gray area, where margin for misinterpretation is ironically the largest (enter conspracy vs. government propaganda). I think we all agree on that.

It only makes sense to believe in what ever makes sense to you the most. The whole officiall explanation of 9/11 for example just doesn't cut it for me. i'm studying to be an architect so i do have some knowledge in structural engineering/mechanics, and from what i've seen.. well nothing is impossible, but sure seemed highly inprobable to me, regardles of what firefighters/witnesses saw. That guy just claims "believe it or not" (so much for scientific approach huh Big Grin) there arent many ways for a building to go down. Actually there are many ways; controled demolition is not only to make the building collapse properly, not to damage other buildings, but also to actually bring it down completely. Its not as easy to bring the whole thing down efectively without the knowlidge.

That smaller building (tower 7 or whatever) was specially suspicious, and as for the towers.. when you're designing such a project, the safety margin is doubled. Unless theese planes were packed with explosives, i just cannot see a way for the thing to go down. Speed of the plane is irrelevant in my opinion, as the horizontal forces in case of wind or earthquakes are thousant times greater. As for fire.. well if the burning rugs and paper documents weakened the steel core, than those were some very lousy structural engineers..

The whole "landed on the moon thing" is also a bit sketchy (if we landed there 50 years ago, hey why arent we up there making serious research, instead ofhaving geologists still foriging for "interesting stones that might be similar to those up there" in nevada desert or the like).

The money part i the most unsure of, as i'm an economy-faculty dropout Big Grin But it doesnt take much research to see how money corrupts people.. also you can see that the more wealth acumulated, higher the greed.. so anything is possible really. Not too sure about them lizard people tho Big Grin

So this is jsut my logic, without witnesess' reports or balsy theories..
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07-02-2009, 10:26 PM
Post: #16
1: Twin towers? To me totally believable..but then I'm just a civil engineer who has studied 7 years on building mechanics..All those things about fire safety..you're just guessing arent you?:wink:

2: Building #7? Now THAT was weird..

3: Moon landing? Dude..you really need to do some research..that means reading something other then conspiracy sites. You really believe all that shit they feed you without actually checking some references yourself?

Now its just a matter of waiting for all the other parts of the religion to pop up... blah blah blah AIDS (but never ever speak to an actual doctor to get some background), blah blah blah Zionism,...vapor trails..The list is endless. Amazing what just the illusion of research will get people to believe.

By the way..this isn't aimed at anyone here in particular. So please don't feel directly offended.

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07-03-2009, 02:53 AM
Post: #17
Pardon me for going offtopic, but about that moonlanding, it just isnt convincing some people went to a place called the moon in 1969 with 1969 supercomputers having the same amount of power than our average calculator... plus that moon rover, the lunar module actually lifting again from the moon and gathering with the main module, and other crap...

I know what you'r thinking, you saw that mithbusters special on apollo 11 but to me that is just plain old crap and they proved NOTHING being their experiments directed to prove the man was on the moon...

Im sure if there was a russian mithbusters they would prove the opposite.

I believe Yuri Gagarin and Leika went to outter space, that wasnt hard in the 60's, but going to the moon and actulaly coming back is just proposterous.

Anyone with a common sense of mechanics and phisics should know better, plus you have to really frame this in the cold war era, america just couldnt bear with being number two...

in my opinion: STAGED in some studio.

PS: There's some guy on youtube stalking the apollo 11 and other apollo crews making them swear on the bible they really went to the moon... funny they have a real problem doing that, only Buzz did it...

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07-03-2009, 10:55 AM
Post: #18
So basically because you believe it was difficult and astronauts wouldn't talk to someone stalking them, the moonlanding didn't happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of belief (are rather more unbelief :-) ) involved.
While the "belief" approach is one method, after the beliefs-system days of glory (the dark ages - medieval times) most of the world has switched to the scientific method: gathering and weighing the evidence from various sources. Mostly because it produces better results. One good source to try out that approach would be this wiki:

It shows some "evidence", but more importantly, also their references. So like the zeitgeist debunk, you don't have to believe anything, but go and check one or two pieces of evidence provided. The missions were observed from a few places in Europe (and some of the things they left behind are still in use today), so you don't have to visit the US to talk to some people who are involved in the whole thing. I'll bet that there are even some forums, totally unrelated to Apollo or NASA, where you could talk to some people yourself. I work with an Astronomer and if you are really interested, I can try and put you in contact with some people working on laser rangefinding.

To me, if the whole thing was a conspiracy, the sheer complexity of the hoax, the mindblowing number of people involved (almost millions if you include design, manufacturing, tracking, Coms, telescopes, etc), the fact that everyone has managed to keep their mouths shut: That would be an achievement more impressive then the whole moon landing Smile

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07-13-2009, 12:57 AM
Post: #19
NoHachi i'll leave it to you and your scientific approach, to each his own as i said. I have my own ways of making opinions, scientific approach beeing just one part.

Believe it or not, i never actually read any conspiracy site, because it gets very clear very soon that they are trying very hard to convince people to believe their story. Almost kinda like you trying to present your beliefs, on top of your references and experience. This is not a muscle brawl, of whos got more cred to talk about this, simply what you believe. I've seen many buldings burn for a lot longer than the towers have and they got renewed and the structure is still in tact to see another day. The officiall explanation was that the carpets, furnutire and paper documents fueled the fire. Just how hot do they burn? To me its a sign of terrrrrrrriiible fire proofing, or it just didnt happen that way. Again, not saying its impossible, just superhard for me to accept that. To you it might be different, after all you got 2 years on me in the field.

As for the moon, most of my opinion is based on my common (non)sense. Its just rediculus why wouldnt we go back there to do reaserch or maybe even start developing some structures there etc. And judging by the time this happened, i see every reason to go to extreme lengths and costs to duplicate something like this.

Again, you can have your beliefs and i'll have mine. :wink: And i will much rather listen to your opinion, instead of getting diverted to various references, i can find much of it myself when i feel the urge.

The evolution is exponential so the amount of information and choice is also increasing with an exponential rate. The human mind already cannot cope with it and it will get harder and harder to grasp to something. There is however another mechanism built into us, which is much better than the rusty mind - intuition. This does not discard the "scientific reasearch" only brings it to another level. At this stage that we're in you can challenge every belief, every proof, every evidence and always get different outcome. Thus relying only on "scientific proof" just doesnt seem very provident to me.
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07-13-2009, 08:43 AM
Post: #20
Quote:The officiall explanation was that the carpets, furnutire and paper documents fueled the fire. Just how hot do they burn? To me its a sign of terrrrrrrriiible fire proofing, or it just didnt happen that way.

But what about the several tons of kerosine that someone had misplaced inside the towers.. Also (and this is from conspiracy theorists) the buildings contained some archives.

Quote:Its just rediculus why wouldnt we go back there to do reaserch or maybe even start developing some structures there etc.

Maybe costs and practicality. You need to have a definate "need" to be there to be able to sustain a 100billion space campaign. Back then Russia and the US were in a war of ideologies. Both claiming technological and scientific supremacy. Russia was first to space, first manned space flight. First womaned space flight :-) etc. Only thing left that the US could win was the race to the moon. Russia had already landed a probe there, so that prize was also given. Russia had its own lunar program so the race was on.
If the whole thing was a fake, and there were easy ways of proving it. Wouldn't you think that the USSR would have had every reason to make the whole thing public? Offcourse, a couple of smelly dudes behind their laptops with to much spare time are way better at that kind of thing ;-)

just kidding.

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