Help us find JOE69

Takumi Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 231 Location: Stockholm

now help us find joe who has gone missing.
Anyone who made contact w him recently?
Help

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject:

I am also looking for him. I am lost contact with him since last year. What I can suggest you, go to http://www.drift.com.my and register the forum. Post your thread to ask some help there. If nothing happend I will send someone to find him in Malaysia.

But I am not promise to you. Please dont ask me everytime about him as I live in Holland. So any news I will post at this forum.

Wataru Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 50 Location: Denmark

My latest received e-mail from him, was on the 1. december.

Got his adress:

Johan Jasril Hamzah
No.14, Jalan Mahkota 2, Taman Mahkota,
43000 Kajang, Selangor, Malaysia.

Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

I have sendt him like 20 mails the last 3-4mounds.
He sendt me some tail ligths, but the one was broken in the shipping, then i pay for a spare ligth, but never got it..

i olso got his telefon number but cant call it fra my mobilfon her ind denmark.

So if any one know him og get in kontakt with him please send me a messeng.

sorry for my bad english.

/kion fra dk

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

oh wow... he did it again.

well.. i'm sakaito, moderator from Drift.com.my.

Joe69 WAS a personal friend of mine until he did some bad deals. Went south ever since.

Anyway, what happened to u guys already happened to a lot of people in Malaysia. The first couple of deals usually quite ok, coz he tried to build his reputation as a reputable seller. Once that is done, i really dunno why he would tarnish it by not honoring his sales.

U guys can visit here and find out more about him. BTW, DCM got a lot of very good sellers and as i can tell, Joe69 is the only one that have bad rep.

http://www.drift.com.my/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Feel free to look up for me in dcm and i'll try to help as far as i can.

-Sakaito-
G-spec mod@drift.com.my

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject:

Welcome and thank you for going through the trouble of explaining things! Thumbsup

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject:

Sakaito, welcome, always good to have a friend from an another enthousiast board onboard.

Sorry to hear the story behind JOE...

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

hey guys..

thanks for the warm welcome.

I, myself is a trader just like joe69 and have dealt with some people in US. Haven't try anybody in Europe yet. ehehehe

Anyway, used to own a KE70 and TE72 but has since sold both. Now concentrating more on business and family.... but might be building another TE72 soon though. Very Happy

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject:

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject:

This is a first in AEU86 history but we've decided to lock JOE69 commercial sales thread with a warning seeing the information that has reached us the past few weeks, not just through this topic but also privately.

Since we have not heard JOE's side of the story we refrain from an opinion on his persona but we felt the situation is getting out of hand and action on our part was needed.

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject:

Selamat datang sakaito ke forum AEU86.

Thanks for some info about Joe69.
Hope we can find him and let him settle the problem here.

Regards,
Ibrahim

Takumi Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 231 Location: Stockholm

if all gather their info they got from joe here we maybe can come upp w something? post everything here.. and if anyone knows how to track this help please

These are details i got from ur shipment.
Shipment Referrence Number : PKLSTHM 3422521
Mother Vessell : APL Topaz V / Bunga Raya
ETA : 18 December 2007

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject:

welcome on board Sakaito (Jaza). Eddie here.

I'm looking for Joe69 too. And i have received lotsa PM from my customer. This guy is not only killing himself but killing my business and anyone else. I hope he will come out and explain everything to us.

p/s:

jaza, building a TE again? wad engine? 4age? Thumbsup

Cheers.

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

Eddie!

ahahaha... it's a tough choice between KE35 and TE72... we'll see how it goes. Already got me the engine, SR20DE from S14. Very Happy

i think it'll be TE again.
Thumbsup

anyway, back to joe's case. I'm tired of having to answer for him. I used to back him up but no more. so, i hope he'll come clean and explain himself. one forummer in DCM, Mica, said joe text him 2 days ago and said he would settle. he always answer like that... so we'll see how.

Itsuki Joined: 29 Mar 2007 Posts: 14 Location: roaming

yeah i have receive several personal msg from 2 forumers last year too asking for joe69 who sold them ae86 parts.
since i have the same name n they think im joe69. i hope this thread will answer osme of the guys who thought i was joe69 but imnot. im joe.

happy hunting for joe69

joe

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:

jjoeworks,

Auch, man thats gotta suck....

sakaito (and all others),

Well we always need to keep in the back of our heads that something really shitty might have happened to joe that caused him to get into trouble and as a result, his customers. Not all people do bad things because they are bad people. Thats the real problem with forums and international deals, on one side the anomisity makes it relatively easy to get conned, on the other side it also makes it very hard to judge when someone is telling truth and the problems aren't his/her fault to begin with.

Having run a shop together with Art for the past year has made it all to clear how ill suited shipping companies and local governments are towards small international businesses as ourselves. There simply are no guarantees, international tracking is a laugh, and unless you ship with DHL and the likes and pay shipping that is 10x more expensive then the part your shipping, there simply is no way to be sure you can find out where a package ended up when it doesn't arrive at its destination.
And often I've found out its not even the shipping company that is at fault.

I once spend 2 months, 2 MONTHS waiting for a package that was AIR shipped (i.e. overnight delivery). It was posted in the US, flew to Amsterdam airport the next day, delivered at customs, spend 2 months on a shelf at customs, and finally ended up at my door. Countless of inquiries from both ends to where my package was did not do ANY good, nobody knew where it was.

In the end, tracking is only good to confirm that something has arrived, not to figure out when things go amiss, and in that way only protects the supplier from being conned themselves. It does very little for the buyer. (well some shipping companies do a good job. TNT used to have a pretty good tracking site depending on where you ship, but its gotten worse).

That all does mean that the financial risk is potentialy stagering. High priced goods with high priced shipping can go lost without any explanation. With small businesses like joe's, it only takes one or two of these going wrong to be financially ruined especially if you do not calculate this risk into your pricing.
It is in the end, not your customers problem if parts go missing, though as a supplier you have to always be mindfull of a customer conning your out of a free product, in the end you can not have your customer pay for a product they do not receive.

This sometimes means not giving a customer the choice over the cheapest shipping method simply because the cheapest shipping method puts yourself at the highest risk or making sure the customer knows that if the shipment gets lost, and they haven't opted for the insurance and tracking, sorry but thats no refund.

That last one I've seen come past a few times on the board and other boards, where parts have indeed been lost, probably stolen off the docs by some ill tempered handlers, customers getting upset, and shouting at a supplier for conning them out of their money, while in reality it was their own greed and unwillingness to pay an additional 50 or 100 dollars of shipping to get a big packet of expensive goodies send half way around the world.
Just think about it, 50 dollars worth of gas doesn't get you out of your country, heck depending on where you live it might not even get you out of your state! (well depending on where you live, gas might actually be that cheap, but I think I made my point).

Anyways, two points I'm trying to make here:
1) Joe could be a conmen, or simply a supplier who did honest business until a couple of deals went wrong and he never properly solved these problems and kept on going where he should have stopped. The net result is the same, alot of unhappy customers, but in my eyes it does make a difference between whether he's a bad person who I wish all the bad things in the world to, or someone who ran out of luck who I would offer a helping hand no matter how much he fucked things up
2) As customers, realize that getting the cheapest deals, be it through suppliers on the forum, through ebay, or whatnot, choosing the cheapest shipping, may not be your best option. Even when buying from the best supplier out there, if you're not willing to pay for relyable shipping, you're not going to get relyable shipping and it simply isn't fair to the supplier to ruin his/her reputation for your unwillingness to spend money. Sure you can blame the supplier for offering you the cheaper shipping, but you know perfectly well that you asked him for it, and that if he didn't, you would have bought from the other guy that did.

That all said, Joe making bad deals towards fellow Malaysians does not bode well for his case. There are no real shipping issues there, if needs be he could drop the goods off personally. Only if he already got into enough financial trouble through international problems.....

Owh and just to make sure, I don't know Joe, I never did business with him, and I have no idea whats going on here. The above is purely my general opinion based on my 4 years experienced running this board and seeing many suppliers come and go. I'm not trying to defend Joe, but I've learned never to take things on face value.

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

Mux,
Everything you wrote is true enough, but in my mind there's no doubt that if you stop communicating with your customers, then you are not worth the trust they gave you.

For example, paradise racing was a decent business to begin with, slow but decent. Until Luis stopped replying to all his emails, except the ebay inquiries.
Hiding from your customers is screwing them over.

JonT has had a few rotten deals (he even weaseled out on an ebay deal I had with him for some redline taillights), but he did take the time to reply to my emails, which is why I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

I fear that it is nearly impossible to exclude such risks when dealing internationally.. especially when so much money is involved, but it goes to show why these kinds of big expenditures are best done only with proven, respectable businesses.

Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1 Location: Cheras, Malaysia

"but it goes to show why these kinds of big expenditures are best done only with proven, respectable businesses."

hmmm i have been doing business with a respectable customer from Australia [by name arch drakos] for 2 YEARS.... but the last shipment i made for an AUD2400 (if i'm not mistaken which is too long ago) did not came back to me. I do see him online thru nissansilvia.com but i really do not know how to settle this, i have tried so many ways by threatening him to report this to the embassy but nothing happen.

Also a suspension set delivered to NZ customer by name "glen allen" and i have not receive any emails or payment again whatsoever.

the above statement you have mention might have proven an individual as a good business person but i still can't trust anyone in business for a long run because i've been been trick before...

but business still have to run so how can i do this?.. always confuse me Smile

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject:

Hello everyone

I kept silent about this issue untill now, I've been reading everything about Joe69 and I still ain't got no conclusion...
As far as I know he always kept his business clean and all that, but it "could" be, as said here, a scheme to gain reputation and the confidence of everyone... to make the big scam...

One thing that acctually hit me is that i noticed that I am selling less and less more using AEu86.org since this started to happened.

I trade here using my own name, but also using my company name: "OISHI Performance + Grafix", a company that is registered under Portuguese law, with a clean record.

I dont keep number of the deals I made using AEu86.org but it should be almost 60~70 untill this date, and there was only ONE time I made a mistake: It was when JamesAE86 ordered a JDM boot lock and I sent him a EURO one. This was resolved in a month or so, the time it took for me to receive the new lock from Japan, and James can tell you the same.

I also ask every of my customers to post a feedback about me and OISHI on this forum but not all do so, unfortunatly.

Point is: OISHI is just not some guy living with his mother (like said about Joe69), it is a actual company registered under law, with adress, social security, and everything else, and ask everyone who made deal with me about my honesty.

Sorry for the long story everyone, as for the Joe69 issue, it would be better for everyone who was conned to join forces and send someone to Malaysia to reach for him... my two cents.

Takumi Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 231 Location: Stockholm

Hey they found JoE69.. we are waiting now on www.drift.com.my on an explenation or something else Very Happy

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject:

Jonny: Business has been less good for the aeu86 shop since this started as well, however I suspect that has more to do with the season. People park their cars inside a shed, or don't do any maintenance on their cars right now.

Ofcourse there are some people who make use of the winter to do big maintenance on their cars, but thats (from how I see it) a minority.

BTW: Joe69 told us he registered himself as a company as well, otherwise he wouldn't be dealing in the commercial sales subforum.

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

Donut,

Well when its about respectable businesses, businesses deal with many customers and their track record can give you a good feel about whether it is safe to do business with them.
The other way around is much harder. How to know if a customer will pay for their goods? There is no way to build up a trust relationship especially with overseas customers. Even if they have ordered large amounts twice with you and nicely paid, they may scam you on the third. Only with local customers you can build up an honest relationship, or with customers that besides your business dealings you build a separate relationship and become friends in other ways you might develop trust.

Our solution was simple, we demand payment up front. If people don't trust us as a supplier, then it already ends there. We simply can't afford to take that risk. Offcourse AEU86 is in the luxery position that both me and Art do not rely on our business to support ourselves and do this for fun and for the community. But at the same time that means we wish to run near 0 risk.

Jonny, this is exactly why I posted my whole rant. I don't know how and if recent events have influenced your business or if its just the season that is making business slow but over the past 4 years I've noticed some crazy events on the same lines.

Be it technotoy tuning, paradise racing or your shop just to name but a few, it takes but a single post by a disgruntled customer to drag such a shop down to a halt (or so it would seem if you read the reactions to such a post) while often the whole case is about nothing at all.

Even the most respectable business make mistakes, and often you have to wonder if the mistake is even theirs. Sometimes its even their own success that simply overwelms them and makes them react a little slower. But even worse, sometimes its simply some idiot that mad over nothing.

The bad thing however is it seems, it takes 100 satisfied customers to balance 1 disgruntled customers to balance your shops opinion in the minds of potential buyers. And in such a small community its hard to find that balance.

In the end that still means, my opinion about Joe is not yet made up. He could indeed be someone who is trying to screw things up, but I still feel strongly that he could still be someone just caught up in something that originally was not his own fault.
Knowing how easily you can get into trouble in this business once a deal falls apprt by causes not controlled by yourself (unexpected shipping costs/lost packages/bad customers/etc.), he could just have cascaded from one problem into the next and not have seen any way out but spiral down into more trouble.
And lets face it, the internet also has a mean habit of making things seem 10x worse then they are.

Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

wow... heated argument in here..

anyway, i managed to find joe69 and found out his troubles. I've given him a deadline to comeback to his customers with answers. Else, myself and few of my friends will try and straighthen him out, again. ehehehe..

About the shipment thing, i fully understand them! i used to work with FedEx and let me tell u, different laws in various countries are very hard to keep up to date. Once i send something to Bulgaria, it was about 105kg in weight and the size was the allowed size. Once reached there, the customs said cannot enter the country because allowed weight for that size is 95kg. WTF? so the package got resend to Singapore, repacked into 2 packages of 60kg each. ahahahaha.. took 3 months to reach there. haih..

Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 2 Location: Australia

Takumi Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Posts: 231 Location: Stockholm

i thinks he´s planing something fishy.. im calling him numerous of times. he answers and put away the phone or he just give a damn that im calling..
F him so hard.. hate him.. i want my damn money and ill buy from someone else.!!!