My Tuned AE86 project

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Goal: Build a versatile car that you can have fun/learn in everyday and capable to be used on circuits and sprints etc.

I purchased this shell, it was an uncompleted project with no engine and a T50 gearbox. Nothing exciting here, just your standard SR5 equipment onboard.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

I had a spare EFI fuel tank in the backyard which was rusted;
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Used POR15 fuel tank repair kit on it.

AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

This stuff was great so I painted coated the outside to protect it from roadchips and prevent future rusting.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject:

That's a big difference! Smile

Where are you from btw? Blonde question

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

As I'll be fitting a 20V I thought a 6-speed transmission would complement it nicely.

With a few possibilities, but I ended up getting a S15 az6 gearbox.
T50: 3.587 2.022 1.384 1 .861
AZ6: 3.626 2.2 1.541 1.213 1 .767

It has very simliar ratios to a TRD-851 gearset but made more streetable as its got a first gear and over drive for fuel saving Smile

Some pics to compare the AZ6 vs a T50.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Problem #1 was the cost Smile

But I managed to convince myself to buy it.

Problem #2: its 45 kilos!!!

Problem #3 is the S15 does not have a speedo drive. On the S15, speed pulses are taken from the ABS sensor in the rear diff. One of the reasons why I brought the S15 box was I suspect it is capable of holding a Speedo drive of some sort.

AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

As you can see there is a casting for the speedo hosing to fit and I assumed the it would align to the output shaft for a worm drive of some sort. I opened the rear housing but there is no worm drive or any grooves or dimples to hold one.

After further research, the J160 from (is200) seems to be the only AZ6 box that has a speedo drive gear - (I don't count the S2000 as that box looks vastly different). As the J160 speedo housing is interchangable with the W5* box, I will try use a W5* worm drive/housing to get a speedo mechanical drive.

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject:

This is interesting with the AZ6 box! I'm looking forward to seeing how you get it swapped in Thumbsup

BTW Dan aka Oldeskewltoy is trying to make a kit to do the T50->AZ6 swap you might want to check it out Wink

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject:

See also here:
http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/t50-to-az6___-a-...box-issues/t/4283

And here for pre-orders:
http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/az6-swap-available/t/4798

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

There's been 2 people I read of who have successfully installed a AZ6 so I'm not breaking new ground...Just documenting the pain Smile

Dan's kit looks like a nice option - I'll tackle the "mating" problem bit later when I do more proper measurements.

Visited my local wrecking yard for my daily exercise today...

measured the Diameter of the output shaft where the Worm drive is suppose to be in the S15 box and its ~27mm.

So im looking at finding a worm drive that can fit this.
I measured a W5* auto box and it was ~29mm so thats bit too big. I assume the T50 is ~25mm based on the output spline.

I've ordered a S14 worm drive (wild guess because the boxes look very similar) so I will have that tommrow to test - and hopefully fit.

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Update on Worm Drive for Speedo:

S14 worm drive is too small ID so wasted some money there.

Now I will try my luck with a J160 (IS200 AZ6) worm drive as its the only AZ6 I know of that runs a worm drive near the output shaft. Will see in about 2 weeks - but it looks like I may need to get a spacer machined & welded to my output shaft as a last resort.

Mating the AZ6 to the 4A block.
For individual reasons, I will probably try get this one to fit myself. Here are some of the key measurements I took;

(T50 vs Az6)
Face-shaft tip: 5.5mm vs 17.8mm
tip-spline start: 23.7mm vs 33.4.mm

Basically the AZ6 box runs a pilot bearing on the flywheel as opposed to the crank like the T50. Thus it has a much longer tip and sits much deeper inside the face of the bellhousing.

From the spline back, the T50 and Az6 are very similiar in lengths etc. The thrust release bearing from fit on each others shafts Smile

Option 1. Adapter mating plate
There is a -22mm difference that needs to compensated for to get the clutch system to work like the T50. If you add an adapter plate to this, it would be at least -30+. So to achieve this with a Adapter plate, I would have to mill the bellhousing face down, use flywheel spacer, possible new bolt flanges. I figured this is a the more messy option.

Option 2. Cut and mate/weld both bellhousings. As crude as it sounds, this seems to be the most logical as I will need to spend time making sure I cut/weld at the most ideal points. So this is the option I will pursue.

Its a writeup of someone doing something simliar using a I200 6speed (az6 - J160).

I found this link:
http://www.rsmotorsport.com.au/forums/viewtopic...af2588457208cc182

Really helped and gave me some ideas.

...lots of babble but this needs to be carefully planned as I probably only have 1 shot at this.

Got a new a pilot bearing (15 IDx28 OD x7 WID). The Input shaft will need to be shaved at the tip, 1mm and shortened 9.7mm to work like a T50 would.

Next step is to locate cutting/matting positions.

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Haven't really being doing much but for those interested in the gearbox, I think i've found the solution.

Problem:

S15 gearbox doesn't have a speedo - it runs from abs sensor/signal converter. So anyone using a S15 box as a transmission without the diff needs to find an alternative speedo.

Luckily the IS200 gearbox has a speedo worm gear / and speedo drive. This speedo drive interchanges with the W5* boxes so you can convert IS200 electronic speedo to cable driven this way. So back to the problem the S15 shaft doesn't run any worm drive and hence no speedo capability. The worm drive from a W5* is too big ID and does fit. So heres my attempt to adapt a IS200 worm drive onto the S15 gearbox.

Parts were purchased from lexus dealership. Try remove the 'T' and ask your local toyota dealership...it may even be cheaper!!! dunno.

Part# T33481-22030, Worm gear for IS200 6-speed, cost $60
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Part# T90467-25001, Clip retainer for IS200 6-speed cost $3.50
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Now the gear fits perfectly over the shaft as in above picture. All I think you need to do is drill 2 holes so the clip can clamp onto and you have a worm gear on the output shaft of your S15 gearbox (and possibly work on MX5/RX8).

I haven't progressed further than that but im sure it will line up to the casting that exist on the box. That will determine where you drill the two holes (though im guess central location is best) but will need to do measurements.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

P.S. I have not tried this on my own box so I do not know if it will work 100%. But it take me few months before I even look at it so enjoy the info.

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Been bludging around for a while...playing with ideas of different engines (SR16ve, f20c) but decided on:

AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Going to use SP-tec relocation in the first stage (I have aftermarket ECU but thats going to take bit longer to setup)
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Had to shave the block to fit 16v rwd thermostat housing
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Also shaved the 16v rwd alternator
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Planning to use a EWP
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Water outlet/inlet plans are as follows
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

After all that trouble...I decided I need to relocate the alternator to exhaust side for more space. Mad

Decided on trying a Daihatsu charade alternator (3.1kg vs 3.8kg) Not much weight saving there. 20v alternator is 5kgs. I just hope it will have enuf amps...i think its around 40-50amp range.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Started measuring and making template for alternator bracket:
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Again wasted more time >< because I found this:
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Its a SR20DE alternator bracket, but if you mount it upside down on the exhaust side, it bolts up perfectly.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Here is the plan with the alternator:
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Need to shave 14.6mm off the front and .4mm off the back of the bracket and it should line up (according to my measurements). The bracket is really heavy so next will be to put it on a diet while I get it shaved.

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Boring Chassis Prep. Usual stuff of removing rust and deadener (this car has extra deadener) so nothing that interesting on that side.

Got a new toy however:
P-craft 4-2-1 N2 extractors from Japan.
Primary: 36mm ID, ~750mm length
Second: haven't measured
Exit: 2.5inch.

Brought this based on the tuned length was what I was after. Might be tempted to install this on the 16v to compare it against my current 4-1 RSR.

AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Oh and heres the other 'side project' (yeah I have a few of them...probably explains why im taking so long).
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

If I can't have a f20c, at least I can pretend I have one.

First step was to organise the 'electrical' wiring.
I went down to the salvage yard to find the connectors for these (ebay wants $150) or so but I found them on combination Honda Prelude (80s), Mitsibushi magna (90s) and Mazda (90s). So I started pulling out wires that weren't needed. Here is my SST of choice, a modified fruit pick.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Connect A: Just gotta wedge the top down and the wire will come out.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Connect B: Left sides and retainer, then pick the clip out.
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Connect C:
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Connect D:
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Lots of excess wiring removed and quite boring but satisifying at the end. Will post wiring diagrams later.

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:14 am Post subject:

looking like the same amazing quality as the last one, only this time with a lot more trick stuff Smile

p.s i do quite like the s2000 cluster, was just trying to make an easier suggestion thats all Smile

did you manage to speak to anthony?

Ryousuke Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 144 Location: UK

Quality, keep us updated Smile

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Thanks mate, yeah im playing around with bit more now since I like the 86 and trying to build it with stuff I like. I have a few more engine parts for later projects Smile

Which i will uncover when I get to it Smile

Ok so to get this cluster running properly on an 86, there are 3 problems.
1. Speedo is electric
2. Temp Guage is pwmish signal (in order to light up the bars according to temp)
3. Fuel Guage reader is different.

There are commercial kits to resolve these problems and would cost around $150-$200. I wanted to do it a little different so here is the plan:

Use the 'speedo' as LCD readout with a toggle switch.
Output
* speedo of course
* water tempature
* oil tempature
* oil pressure

So thats 4 signals IN and 1 signal OUT - to accomplish this I will be using a 'Microcontroller'. (Ok I am NOT an expert...actually I am a newbie since I started this few weeks ago but sharing the experiences/learnings as I go).

So the first step is to make the speedo turn on from 0-300 on command. To get started, I needed a programmer and microchip at the very least.

Here is the programmer I brought: Its a Pickit2 starter kit with a lowpin count prototype board which comes with 16F690 microchip (microcontroller).
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

With this I write software and burn it to the chip. My first step is to build a signal generator to output 0-300. Got excited and twinkered with some lesson code, I was able to generate:
AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

You crack me up! Wave

There is no way anyone can say you go in half arsed.

As always, shall watch developments with interest and envy.

I thought your own recent personal developments may have put a stop to all this.......

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:

Nice work man. Worship

have you done any work on intercepting the fuel level sender yet ?

from my readings the s2000 fuel level sender provides

in the s2k manual (page 11-120) it tells you about the sender that is in one of 2 places:

1. On the main cartridge if its a UK car
2. On it's own separate catridge if its a US/Cananda car (this drops straight into the ae86 tank - if you can find one).

It outputs for ranges based upon E 1/4 1/2 3/4 F

AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

can you try converting this on your PIX board and see what you get ? do you know the pins on the cluster for fuel yet ? I think there are two sets - one set that drives the fuel gauge and another that drives the low fuel light.

On the AE86 side of things page (BE-26) in the manual describes the fuel level sender as so.

AE86 : Projects > My Tuned AE86 project

Any tests you could do based upon the above would be very useful as I have to do this myself as my sk2 powered car still runs the 86 fuel level sender.

Good work so far man.

Ryousuke Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 144 Location: UK

Nice one Ian Very Happy

Iketani Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

I have had a brief look and have a solution (haven't tested it yet).

If you have a AP1 cluster, the Fuel Sensor Guage input is C8. There is no separate wire for 'empty light' as I am sure its built-in to the cluster. Hence when you reach that resistance (130-132ohms), the cluster will light empty. When I turn the cluster on with wire not connected, the empty lights up by default.

They are both resistance types (varied resistance gives different guage readings) so its not a hard problem that I can foresee.

There are 3 ways that I can see to solve the fuel problem.

1. If you are using a toyota sensor, you can use a mutlipot or fixed resister to linearise the signal. Problem is the guage won't read full bars but at least towards empty will show - easiest but not the most accurate.

2. Use the microchip to perform a ADC then DAC. This will give you flexibility but its a little more complicated than 3 :p

3. Get a s2000 fuel sender! I brought one from a US car but it isn't a bolton affair as I read.

The fuel sensor is part of the fuel pickup but can be easily separated. I plan to disassemble the 86 one, then modify it so the s2000 fuel sensor can be mounted onto it. Wiring is easy, but the only other thing you need to think about is mounting/calibration.

My initial measurements indicate that the s2000 cluster has a -2cm displacement heigh over the 86 one. The solution I have planned is bend the float arm to reduce some of the angles to enable a "longer" float arm throw. This will allow the sensor to have the same displacement as an 86 guage and hence, calibrated to the same tank height. I will do a detailed writeup once I get to this stage but im confident this will work.

In addition, the 86 sensor is notorous for failing so hence why I ended up deciding to replace it with a modern unit which is of more robust design. Two birds, one stone.

If you guys are using aftermarket ECU with you f20c you will still have a temp guage problem as the temp bars use semi-pwm style output. www.modifry.com sells a temp guage adapter if you are interested.

I'm building this one myself, in addition to speedo corrector. I will post results soon. I have the temp guage bars working and working on a robust program to read a toyota VSS and display the speed on the cluster.

Hope that wasn't too detailed of a response Cheerleader