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AE86 with boxer (Subaru EJ205) ???



 
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Uzelac
Bunta



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 842
Location: Zemun, Srbija

1985 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: AE86 with boxer (Subaru EJ205) ??? Reply with quote

I've looked everywhere but couldn't find anyone that put boxer engine into AE86.
Have someone runned into some example, or at least an idea with explanation of potential problems??

Thanks

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NoHachi
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Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 2999
Location: Delft - The Netherlands


PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the boxer very wide? Think you'll have a hard time stuffing it in between the frame rails. Thats the usual problem people run into. Its too wide to fit into an mx5..and those have plenty room for V8s. Never heard of anyone trying into an 86 though.

If you're looking for good swap options -> Ford/Mazda duratec. Lighter then 4A-GE, more displacement, more power


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doggy
Takumi



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 419
Location: Lithuania


PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought about going with EJ207 - cuz im dealing with Subaru daily... But after some messuring - without exesive modification to the front of the AE - it would not be posible to fit EJ series engine there... Either you have to go custom with the Tube frame front - or modifie front chasis legs. Another thing - is gearbox - you would have to custom fit RWD gearbox to the EJ engine... its another problem.

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Uzelac
Bunta



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 842
Location: Zemun, Srbija

1985 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gearbox is solveable, but width of engine obviously isn't.
I'm not ready to do chassis modification, going tubular or anything like that.

About engine, it has to be turbo and 200+ bhp, if i will change it.
With cams change i can get 160+ from 4AGE so only reason good enough to change engine and transmission is power that's not possible on 4AGE (without selling body parts).

I'm trying to avoid common CA, SR and 3S swaps.
Friend is suggesting Opel C20LET and engine from Fiat Coupe Turbo.
The reason is that they are cheap around here, but i prefer Made in Japan Smile

EJ205 sounded great, especially because i have same engine in other car (WRX)...... :/

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Uzelac
Bunta



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 842
Location: Zemun, Srbija

1985 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CX20E and C20LET sound better every time i check on net about them.

And Manta and Omega RWD gearboxes are so easy to find.

Tempted.. really Smile

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Kid Karola
Takumi



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 284
Location: Bergen - Norway

1983 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a EJ20/AE86 project from Australia - http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/forums/showthread.php/18025-Do-You-Have-an-FT86-Because-I-do.

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

As you can see the chassis has been cutaway to accomodate the flat 4. Not pretty but shows anything is possible.


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Lajoosh
Bunta



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 518
Location: Debrecen - Hungary


PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kid Karola wrote:
.....

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

As you can see the chassis has been cutaway to accomodate the flat 4. Not pretty but shows anything is possible.


now that was a f**king cool idea to cut and weld the chassis rail just under the front towers, that should add to chassis rigidity AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

still have to say the obvious: if you want a subaru, then buy a subaru!

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Uzelac
Bunta



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 842
Location: Zemun, Srbija

1985 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early Levin)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, too paintfull, even without heads.
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Jango_Fett
Wataru



Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 63
Location: Mostar

1986 Toyota Corolla AE86 (late EU)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe this is the reason why toyota engineers decided to go with boxer engine in ft86,
imagine if they put any inline 4 or 6, v8 or whatever ,there would be thousands and thousands of people saying: toyota chose a wrong engine, they should put a sr20cef or jz2283 blah blah blah


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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I figured since Kid Karola has posted the intial planning stages of my car up here, I thought I would add a little.

Those pics are from when I initially placed the engine in the car. Hence it doesn't look all that flash, and there is very little actual fabrication work done.

Since then (6 months have passed since those pics were taken) New rails have been fabricated on the inside of the wheel well, the cross section of these new rails are 80x65, subastantially larger, and far more rigid than the pissy little factory rails.

Either way it can be done, I have probably gone too far with rail fabrication (too heavy) but it is my forst try at such a thing.

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

still not pretty, but this is a far better pic, and obviously I am still not finished the fabrication cause I'm lazy.

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NoHachi
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Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 2999
Location: Delft - The Netherlands


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you tie the fabbed rails into the backbone structure of the car? (mostly the remaining part of the rails and the bulkhead? Any pics?
Also, aren't you affraid that you'll have tire rubbing issues? For me its a problem even without chassis rails inside the tubs.

Interesting idea, you're a brave man... hope you get her running again soon.


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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pics explain better than I can, as I have said this is my first attempt, I am a Subaru performance Mechanic, I'm not a fabricator (didn't even know how to weld properly as you can see haha) and I have pretty much just gone with my gut on alot of it, so it's not 100% but close enough for scrutineers to give it the ok. You may say I'm a brave man, I say I'm an idiot. Wink

In regards to wheel clearance

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

I'm using MX62 LCA's, and -30 16x9, might go 17's yet, as its easier to get tyres. It's built for time attack, so a shitload of lock isn't a necessity.

This is an early pic of the rail, changed a bit since. (only tacked up here)

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205
AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

The sheet "cover" is now only 3 pieces (corner, top, bottom, in 1.6mm)


AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205
AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

P.S doesn't matter if none of you like it, I love it haha.

Cheers
Rhys.

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banpei
Site Admin



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 10185
Location: Hilversum

1982 Toyota Carina

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF?! THat's wide! Shocked Thumbsup

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NoHachi
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Joined: 07 Sep 2004
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Location: Delft - The Netherlands


PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghe ghe, I kinda enjoy these non-perfect, learn as you go builds. Usually we end up with non-driveable cars, but you live and learn Smile

It'll have interesting front geometry when you're finished, what are you doing at the rear to match the front track?


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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a friend who builds some awesome racecars, who has done all the maths for me, so the front end should be close to right geometry.

I am running, a hilux g series in the bum. From memory that plus 10 wide tyres with a fair whack of offset should push it out enough. Front track is 1493mm I want 1500 at the rear, which is the same as a 22b impreza hahaha.

It may be a non perfect build but, this one will go. I have everything except a fuel system a tailshaft, and suspension, just a matter of getting it all together.

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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I should probably give you guys a bit of an update on this heap of shit. Last time I was here, I was still learning alot, in terms of chassis fabrication.

In the past year, I have taken a lot on board, from various sources, as a consiquence, I cut the front end up, and rebuilt it. This actually happened 3 times, but I now have some chassis rails, that are actually decent lol.

So heres some pics. ( I haven't touched the car for about 6 months, so I thought this maybe some motivation)

AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205
AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205
AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205
AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205
AE86 : Technical > AE86 with boxer Subaru EJ205

As you can see it has come along way in the past year, as has the quality of my work. So this project isn't dead, just going slowly, hope you guys like the progress.

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mc68
Ryousuke



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Perth, Western Australia

1983 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early JDM Levin)

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

love the dedication but just have to ask yourself.. Why... The EJ (an any guise) Is not the strongest, or really anywhere efficient as compared to most inline or V motors...

Ive been working on Subaru motors for the past 8 Years... Yeah you can get power out of them, but its pushing shit up hill sometimes.

Throw a toyota 2GR in a sprinter... 3.5l v6... thats a little more me


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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have asked myself why, so many times, so much work, when I could of done something far easier. But then i just think of how cool it will be.

I like you have been working on subarus for the better part of a decade, and honestly, I know I can make a reliable 300kw, without having to try to hard.

Then theres the centre of gravity, no other engine could possibly sit as low as this does in an 86, I have sat a few different engineses in the bay prior to this build, and nothing would give me that sort of cog.

Hopefully it will be on show at WTAC, it's taken 2 years so far, hopefully this coming year I can pull my finger out and get it done.

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mc68
Ryousuke



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Perth, Western Australia

1983 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early JDM Levin)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats on the cards in regards to the motor?

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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRP EJ20k, sleeved with closed deck conversion, and studded, WRC style orings in heads and block. CNC ported 98 RA heads. Can't say too much else apart from compression is key, but pretty much a full house 2L. Bottom end should be good for 40psi, not that I'm running that much, will be running a 35/40 gtx. I have done one engine the same, apart from the turbo, and saw 320kw atw on 25 psi @9200rpm. I did my apprenticeship with TRP, so I'd like to think I know what I'm doing lol
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mc68
Ryousuke



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Perth, Western Australia

1983 Toyota Corolla AE86 (early JDM Levin)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent. Good to see you kept it 2 Litre.

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Gunner




Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah with the gbox im running (Sti RA Close ratio 5 spd) I want it to rev, so i can still pull the speed i need to for eastern creek, with out running under a 4.3 diff ratio.
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